Aida-M: In the beginning, can you tell us how was your life before the war?

Alie: You mean our way of living,well actually we were - I wouldn't say we were rich at all. We were an average family, every thing that we wanted was there for us, you know. There wasn't any thing at all that was kind of difficult for us to get at all. If we needed any thing you gonna have it. I mean like I said we were like an average family you know and then Life was going on smoothly, we were all going to school and in fact we were going to one of the best school in Freetown and everything was fine, except - ya everything was fine.

Aida-M: So the life was going smooth, so then the war came.

Alie: Yeah the war came. When the war broke out, we had our house burnt down, we lost of course lots and lots of things and we had our cars burnt down. As a matter of fact, there was no hope for us to stay in the country any longer so we ran to Conakry, a neighborhood country next to ours. From there my dad filed for us as a refugee, then we came over.

Aida-M: So you said during the war you lost a lot of things. Can you be specific on what kind of stuff?

Alie: Is like our house, as I said. When the rebels enter our country, the capital they went to our house and requested for the cars and they took the cars because they said they need the cars to fight for our right. At first we was like - I mean, we don't went to give it to them. But with all those guns and they treaty us, if we didn't give them the cars then they are going to shoot all of us. I mean they are going to kill all of us. So there was no option so we just have to give then the keys and took the cars out. Of course After a couple of days they come again and looted every thing in the house. So we thought there wasn't any option for us to stay in the country so we came over.

Aida-M: So you said that the rebels, they told you that they fighting for your right. Did you feel like they actually fighting for your right?

Alie: I don't actually think so because when you are fighting for someone's right you don't have to deprive the person of what the person have. A mean, is like if you fighting for the right of the citizens, the citizens of that country don't have to suffer. A mean, you just have to deal with the government and find ways and means of arranging the situations in the country so the citizens will benefit from the peace that they were fighting for. I don't actually think that what they were saying is right. It wasn't at all for the benefit of the citizens.

Aida-M: So you moved to Guinea, how was your life there as a refuge? Did your life change?

Alie: Of course yes, because it was our first time over there we didn't know any body there .It was like starting life all over again. But on the other hand it wasn't that bad because our dad was supporting us every month like he will send for us a certain amount of money that will be alright for us, for feeding and to pay our rent. Even through life wasn't that bad, but you can't compare it to the way we live in our country. Because in our country is the place we were born in. We know grown-ups there and we know every body there. But in Guinea we just don't know any body there. As a matter of fact the language was a big problem, it has to takes us some time in order to get ourselves adapted. So we had to learn the language then life became a little better.

Aida-M: Was it hard to adjust?

Alie: Yeah, yeah, it was hard to adjust. Like me for sure when I went there, there was no way for me to communicate with the people. There was no way for me to ask someone, you know. Like if I want to go get myself some thing. Imean, the people they don't understand English and English is what we know. So you have to find ways and means of letting them understand what you trying talk about before they render you any help. So it was diffcult at first.

Aida-M: I heard other people from Sierra Leone talking about discrimination, most of them said they were discriminated by Guinean people.That they were telling them bad stuff. Did you face that kind of problem or discriminations?

Alie: Well fortunately, we were not at all because, actually we were near where the officials were you know. Is like a certain quarters were they build, we have all the ministers and secretaries ot states in the government. We were just near their side, so whenever things like this come up they don't come to our side you know. Because that area was well secure, so we did not exprience things like that at all. But those that were far away from that side, of course they were.

Aida-M: So from Guinea you went where?

Alie: We came over to America.

Aida-M: When did you came here?

Alie: We came last year, the 9th of May.

Aida-M: So how was it here for your life here to adjust?

Alie: Of course here it was much better you know, Imean, it was just like living in my own country you know. Because the language was not a problem you know. The only thing that I will say that bother me was when I came over, of course it took me some time to get myself adjusted to the transportation like getting from one point to the other. That was the only thing. Because when it comes to friends that we have back in town, we have lots and lots of them here. So it's like being back in our country you know and it OK. Up till now it fine.

Aida-M: You are lucky, because when I came here I did not know anybody. So I mean for example how was the the transportation?

Alie: You mean when I first came?

Aida-M: Yeah, like using subway, getting around the town. And this is a huge town.

Alie: Yeah, here is a nice place. Like when I first came I get lost several times you know, because in my own country we were not used to the trains. By the time we were born the trains were not existing in my country. So coming over here was like, talking in terms of the transportation, it was diffcult any way. Because it was something that I am not used to you know. I've been used to jump into a taxi and tell the person where I am going all of a sudden I am there. But over here you have to know the address like what I've just encountered. You have to know east from west in one city you know. You have to know where is the east and where is the west in one street. I mean just getting to know one street you know. There is an east side of one street and a west side of one street. In my country its not like that you know is just one street, like for example 24 Manathan Street. You just have to tell the taxi driver then he will take you right at the spot. But here you have to know what place and what you doing there.

Aida-M: So it was kind of hard to adjust?

Alie: Yeah, it was kind of hard to adjust.

Aida-M: What about when you first came to New York and it was of course different from Sierra Leone.

Alie: Sure yeah.

Aida-M: And what are the things that is really really different that you never encounter in Sierra Leone?

Alie: There is a lot of difference when it comes to buildings, electricity, and also in term of security you know there is a big difference in those areas. In my own country there is of course big buildings but it's not like here. I mean you have buildings up to 50 floors. In my country we have buildings up to 20 floors. We don't have buildings that is up to 50 floors. Of course the construction. The way they are building, that's another different.

Aida-M: What about teenagers?

Alie: Teenagers?

Aida-M: The way they act. Like taking drug, alcohol and relationship with parents is that different.

Alie: Is just a slight difference. They way they behave here is the same way we also behave in our country, I'm talking about style. Well In term of drug, I will say yes. Because teenagers in my country are in drug too. But the behavior toward parents is a big different. Because what you do here to your mom or dad is not what you do to them when you are in my country, way in Africa. Here of course you can tell your mom or dad to shut up I mean is no big deal and they will just stand there and look at you. They don't take it as anything. But in my country you tell your mom or dad to shut up you are in hell, they gonna beat the hell out of you.

Aida-M: Well what is your biggest concerns for refugee in New York city?

Alie: My concerns?

Aida-M: Like what are you worrying about the most?

Alie: Like what?

Aida-M: It could be anything that worries you , it could be about college, drug and alcohol.

Alie: Well my concern is ...

Aida-M: Or maybe you don't have any concerns at all.

Alie: Well I don't think I have any. I just wanna grow up and become a better person in societies that's all.

Aida-M: What about your plans for the future, if you could share that with us.

Alie: Of course I wouldn't like to grow up as a poor guy at all I will like to be rich though not very, very rich. I will like to get everything that I want just like this and like in the future of course I will like to - am now in college - let me say am about to start college next month. Then am going to begin studying fashion designing. I would like to grow up and be one good person in society you know be successful and get any thing that I want.

Aida-M: You are a person who have experience the war, based on your experience what do you think about the war right now. Like if you going to give an advice to anybody in the government. What would you gonna say to him, like president Bush or anybody in power.

Alie: A war is something that we all should avoid because it does no good for a country, all it does is bring the people to corruptions and destroy buildings that had take the government lots and lots of years to build up you know and it brings the country backward it doesn't help at all. I mean it's something that the government should avoid you know. Is not anything that some people believed that when it comes it going to make them rich because they going to go to people's houses, stores and by so doing they gonna be rich and wealthy. That's not gonna help the situation at all. Is just one thing that we should avoid.

Aida-M: Is there an image of the war that stock in your mine, whenever you think about war?

Alie: The ordeals I went through you know. Like leaving my country to go over to guinea, that's one thing I will never forget. Because by the time we were leaving the war was already in the capital. The rebels were everywhere with drug and the system were very, very hopeless you know and there were checkpoints all over the place you know. Is like going through those check points to go to the other side of Conakry wasn't at all too easy you know. It was sort of like difficult because you reach a certain point your life is in danger. They gonna asked you to get off the bus tell you to sit down on the floor with gun in front of your face if you attempt to do any thing or you want to move from one place to the other you gonna be dead. Because they gonna shoot you right there. Like as you said - that's it you know me I will never been through such things you know. Those times were difficult times you know. At times when I think of what I went through to get out of the country ,to go to the other side of the country a mean I just sort of forget about it. Because I don't want to being thinking about it or put it to mind that's it.

Ishmael: Sorry I am going to take you back where we already past, but I just want you to explain to us what happen with you and your family from the day the rebels attacted Freetown till the day you guys left what happen.

Alie: Well nothing at all happen to us. Like of course me and my sisters nothing happen to us compare to my friends and other families that had their sisters killed, brothers killed. Uncles killed. But I did at all encounter that my family was OK, the rest of them were in Guinea, and there were doing just fine. That's one big thanks to god you know.

Ishmael: Like for me I'm from Freetown, when the rebels attacted Freetown I went through a lot. I suffered starvations, my joy was taken away from me, my family get separated and my great-grandmother was killed. So that why am asking you to explained the things that you guys went through before you guys reach Guinea.

Alie: Well when it come to starvation you know. I went through starvation when I was leaving the country, like for me I like to eat a lot I have never spend a day without eating but the day we was leaving for Guinea. we left very early in the morning like 5:00 am and we reach Conakry 12:00 midnight. So that whole day I was without food you know. That was really, really bad.

Ishmael: Then when she was interviewing you, you said the rebels enter your house, burnt your house and take your cars from you. How was you feeling at the moment that the rebels went in to your house that you was staying all your life put fire on it then take the cars that makes you guys comfortable?

Alie: Of course like me together with my mom, my uncles and my aunties because we were living in the same house you know. when they came of course we were all scared because those guys were not just good to look at. Some of them has been for days without washing they stink like - I mean they are so bad looking, they have all these stuffs on their body with their guns. So when they came to the compound there were lots and lots of them let me say like 20-30 of them and in that rude manner, they were like making noise and they started shutting their guns up. We were all scared at first, for me I thought it was the end of my life. Because with the things that I know that they were capable of doing a mean I just thought that am not gonna see any moment from that present moment so that is it. We were all scared because they went right in to the house demanding for all sort of things a mean if you make slight mistake you are dead they were all around the place with their guns and of course with their odor. A mean it was not good at all we were all scared.

Ishmael: Then like she was asking you what is you biggest concern in New York city like for example when I first came here people discriminate me because of my culture, background, language, skin color etc. so then you said you don't have any concerns in New York City.

Alie: No I didn't go through all of that.

Ishmael: So in school did any body ever discriminate you, or is school OK. Work and stuff. Everything is fine.

Alie: Yeah everything is fine, I didn't go through all of that. Is just that they have the same questions when you tell them that you are from Africa. They thought that way back in Africa we don't know how to wear clothes we just hang up on the tree and that is were we spend most of our lives. They think that we don't knows how to drive cars, we don't know what are cars. Like some people when they asked you where you from and you told them that you are from Africa, some guys would be like how comes you knows how to dress this way. Do you guys have cars or do you guys live in the capital with animals. You know those kind of stuff.

Ishmael: Ok one last question, like when somebody ask you -- because sometimes people have this funny belief that a refugee should be homeless, dirty and something. When people said you are a refugee, do you accept them like to agree that you are a refugee or you said no you are not a refugee.

Alie: What?

Ishmael: Like when people walk up to you and ask you if you are a refugee, what is your response toward that? Like some people refused to be called a refugee because they are living in a nice house, dressing good and eating good food. Do you normally accept the word refuge or refuse it?

Alie: Well nobody has ever confront me asking me that question, but if someone does. I mean is like even when I was living in my country or even when I was in Guinea. When I was away from my country I wasn't sort living as a refuge you know. there was all those who were living in the camps. The government sort of build camps for them and all they have in the floor is just like --- is not even a mat. You know the lapa right? Lapa is a piece of wrapper that African women used to wrap around their waste. That is what some has as their beds you know. they just lay it on the bear floor and sleep on it. That is what the government was doing for people you know, just building tents for them. Is not even a tent is like a plastic bag, this huge bags ,they just put sticks on certain areas of the four corners and then put the bags on the top. The food of course was poor you know, there was no supply. Instead of... our staple food of course is rice. Instead of the government supply the people rice they supply them this food that they give to pigs. People who has used to eat rice, no longer eat rice. Now they eat the food that they give to pigs. I actually forget the name of this food. But this food that they give to pigs is what they were giving to us to eat. Like people who has used to eat rice no longer eat rice. There are people who undergo those kind of stuff. I don't undergo those kind of stuff, so I did not consider myself as a refugee. Since I came here as a refuge if someone confront me with that, I will be like sure I am a refugee.

Aida-M: So you won't be ashamed?

Alie: No, I won't be ashamed.

Aida-M: Some people are.

Alie: Yeah some people are, but I am not.

Aida-M: There is nothing wrong to be a refugee...

Alie: I know of course I am a refugee, I came here as a refugee. I had to accept the fact that I am a refuge. If someone else is taking it that I am homeless or I don't have something else to do. As long as when I want to eat I don't go and bang on your door to ask for food. Let them think so, but I will accept the fact.

Ishmael: Like what you was talking about the tent and the lapa or something. I go through all that I was in the camp in Conakry it‘s terrible, it's just like living in hell. we had to sleep on top of rocks, at night it very cold and freeze and in the day time is very hot. A refugee is just like living in hell, according to my experience in the camp in Guinea. Then also I was having a conversation with a friend of mine, he said that being a refugee is just like living in a cage or be in a prison. Do you have the same belief?

Alie: Actually the term refugee mean that some one who had left his/her country for certain reason to live in another country. Well it depend on how the person lives it count, if you live like the way people now think that a refugee live like you just have to be one good kind refuge but if you don't well. So it depends on the way you live on your new culture.

Aida-S: How did you picture America when you was in Sierra Leone before you came here? What was the image you have in your mind about America, and when you came here was you disappoint?

Alie: Well yeah, way back in my country I thought that when you come over here you not gonna have any difficulty on getting something. Like if you wonna get your self, like in my country if you want to get yourself a pair of Nike shoe, is kind of expensive you know. When I was in my country I was like am not getting this stuff here because they are very expensive, when I get to America am gonna get it any how I want it. Am going to being wearing one type of model, every time there is a new model I am gonna get it. So is like when I went through certain of difficulty I thought - I was like when I went to America am gonna go through all this difficulty. There am gonna be dealing with the dollars, am gonna get the dollars just like this. So here is kind of difficult for me to get the dollars, maybe is because am here but when I get there nothing is going to be difficult, am going to get everything just like one, two, three. But then we came, I guess you realize that - for my dad if you ask him for like you said dad can I have ten bucks, of course he is going to give it to you but before he give it to you. You are really gonna do like. First of all before he gives you that money he will say OK am gonna give you this amount but here is the deal, you always gonna strike a deal before you get anything from him. He will say here is the deal, you clean the house, after cleaning the house, you vacuum your room, go down stair wash my vehicle for me, sweep the side walk and then I will give you the money. So is like before you get the money you gonna -- I mean is a matter of must you have to sweat before getting it. It was not what I thought. A mean I was like my dad is there, when I need money I will be like your dad what's up let me get a hundred and fifty bucks and he will said go to the bank and then get it. But then it wasn't like that you know, if you think he is going to give you 150 bucks the way you hear him scream first. He will be like what do you want the 150 bucks for. Then he will said here is the deal, there is going to be a deal if you want something from him. It's not what I thought. In Africa there is my aunts, uncles. Am just gonna pick up the phone and be like aunty or uncle what's up. how about the weekend can I come over? Then they will be like OK come over tomorrow. Then when you get there they will just give you money like that. There is no deal or nothing, but here in fact for you to get the money you know they gonna work you like the whole day. Like me you know, of course I work, imagine me leaving home by six o'clock in the morning I'd come back home till like eleven o'clock at night. After work, because I get off work at 3:30 and go to school. So as a matter of fact am here my dad is here but my dad can't be like OK go to school I will pay your school fees. He will be like you are a big boy now, this is America you have to work and pay your own school fees. You also have to be responsible because you not gonna always be in my house. You gonna reach a certain age that am gonna ask you out and you need to find your own apartment so you need to be responsible and be able to pay your bills. The second thing is when you getting an apartment is just like, a mean is not like in Africa you know. You go in an apartment and all you do is pay the rent. There is no sort thing like of course there is water bill, a gas bill electricity of course but is not that expensive you know. Is not like the way they do it here. A mean you have to know the way you used the water for you not to pay more. Like in my country just pay a certain amount, if it is 25 thousands a month for your bill just pay a certain amount. Or you go to the office like the office where you go to pay your bill and you have a friend there just told him/her that you want him/her to arrange for you and of course am gonna pay this amount. It's fix you know, if it is 25 dollars is just 25 dollars you have to give to the guy. When the month ends but you gonna used more water. A mean you used more then what you pay. Like here who are you gonna meet for Con-Edison and said here is 30 bucks I used the light system in my house. If you know you wonna pay 30 bucks a month for water you have to know how to used the water or light system in your house. Or if you used more than that you pay more at the end of the month. I mean is kind of difficult here.

Raeshma: Ali do you seeing yourself staying here in the States or going back to Sierra Leone?

Alie: The reason why I am staying is here you have to work to get what you want. I mean you just don't have to be demanding all ways you work get your own money and do with it whatever you want to do with it. Is your own money you get to know that is your own sweat. So is like - that's one of the reason why I will like to stay here and have no intension of going back. Because when you go back of course the amount I have here every week is not of course what am gonna hand there every week. If I go back all I will have to do is just to being demanding . When I saw a relative. But here I work and get a certain amount I feel is for me you know. I feel proud of it because I sweat for it. That one of the reason why am gonna stay here. This country help you to be responsible, put yourself together and then get you to know that at least when I grow older I am going to earn this amount of money or am going to have this and that you know. I mean the country is so design in a way that someone has to be responsible and you don't have to be idle. If you said you gonna be idle then you are on the wrong side. You are on the wrong track of the place. So that's one good thing. I don't have any plans of going back. I am going back when I think am financially strong so I could go get myself you know big a house and live a comfortable life you know. Like what they said do big things [Ali laughs].

Raeshma: So you think of staying in Africa rather than to stay here?

Alie: Well, just to say that of course when I go back, I wanna go back and then open up an account and of course say I open up a business and start my own life. Other than me staying there a mean is like let me say I give myself 6-7 years from now I will be able to go back and open up and account with a rich amount of money in there and live a comfortable life. But if I was in Africa in 6-7 more years maybe I will be in college and not even have a dime in bank so that all. That's one thing that I like about this country.

LOULOU: Ali if you are about to send a message or give an advice say to like someone who is in control or George Bush, because you are a victim now. You survived war and you have experience it what would that message or advice be?

Alie: Well if I was to give an advice to someone in control or president Bush. If I was to sit in front of George Bush and advice him about war I will tell him to stop telling the Islamic nation that if it war America is ready to fight the war. I will tell him to stop saying that because war is like a mean, is not anything that is at all good and a mean you don't have to be optimistic that if we go in to this war we will be on the winning side on matter what you have, no matter the weapons that you have. No matter I mean the knowledge or whatever you had to fight the war it doesn't mean that what you had is what you going to used to win the war It doesn't come like that. So we should like stop saying that if it comes to war America is going to fight and they gonna fight to the end and make sure that they win a mean that's not good. There is one thing we should be saying instead of being that optimistic that if it comes to war America s going to win. We should not being saying that, we should try to bring the parties together and do what we have to do instead of being that optimistic. We should find solutions to the problems by so doing we will have peace and freedom.